Teaspoon and slash: a pondering

[pontisbright]

(Sorry for the borked formatting, LJ is chucking a mental)
I'm reccing at calufrax this week, and since calapine pointed out the tragically small number of slash recs so far, I'll be serving up an all-slash, all old-skool (or old/new crossover) selection of fics.

Finding stories has been interesting - possibly in a way which is just a reflection of my own reading habits - but it made me ponder.  My automatic reaction was to go looking for slash I'd already loved on LJ, in the hope that I'd find it at Teaspoon, with varying degrees of success.  Some people seem to upload everything they write as a matter of course, both to multiple comms and to Teaspoon: some stories only crop up on LJ (often in small comms, where there’s likely an small audience of familiar faces): some (especially older) fics are on knackered old geocities sites where the author has likely forgotten they’re even still there (and it’s only thanks to the likes of ghost2 and the who_otp Masterlist of Doooom that we ever find them again).

Conclusion: it seems as if a lot of writers of slash and femslash don’t use Teaspoon – or if they do, they’re selective about what they post there, especially with stories involving explicit sexual content. 

So, I’ve got two questions. One: is that accurate?  (I'm more than happy to be proved entirely wrong!)  And two: if I’m not just being crap, what’s the likely reasoning behind writers being selective at Teaspoon?  Is it the notion of small LJ comms being a cosy coterie – and if so, is that a lovely thing or a problem?  Readers, do you mentally categorize Teaspoon and LJ differently in terms of expectations?  Writers, are there some stories you’ve written that you feel are ‘more Teaspoony’ than others?    Can you unpick what your notion of ‘Teaspooniness’ is?

(Please note: this is in no way a dig at Teaspoon, which I love with a burny flamy love.  Nor a dig at LJ comms or individuals.  I know that some stories seem to have the best ‘fit’ in certain locations; some were written as commentfic or ficathon entries or in-jokes, and outside of that context they can read as oddities, weird deviations from the author’s usual style, or just plain incomprehensible.  And that’s before we get to the fics that we regret for one reason or another, and will happily let vanish in the LJ scroll (as much as anything ever can) instead of placing them somewhere more accessible like the ‘official’ fic archive.  It’s entirely up to you where you post your fic: I’m just curious about the reasoning, that’s all.)  

LJ – for any old thing, which you can pass off as just fluff if need be, but which can also result in nice quick feedback and the making of fannish friends
Teaspoon – for ‘proper’ fic which you’ve spent a bit of time over and reckon is worth showing to people outside LJ (despite the fact that you value the opinion of those on LJ more): feels a bit more detached from the audience
ff.net etc – not worth even looking at

Apologies for the tl;dr.  Am interested to know if other people's heads are quite so keen on compartmentalisation as mine, anyway...

 

Comments

[livii.livejournal.com]

Well, I will be interested in them, rah! Mmm, random porn. ;D

The best part of reccing is collecting your favourites, reading stories, and hoping at least one person will be interested, or at least, you've made the author happy. So it should be good anyway, and I will be very happy to see your recs.

[pontisbright.livejournal.com]

Hee! That was one of the things I went looking for, if it's the story I'm thinking of. And now it will be recced anyway and all is right with the world. :)

I suppose wangsting about it when we're in the middle of new canon is extra-daft, though: inevitable that some things will be unavoidable for a bit (though will be interesting to see how ficland handles Ten/Donna). If only 2Entertain would put Planet of Fire on dvd, we'd be sorted.

[boji.livejournal.com]

Well, the centralised archive failed to take off. It now lingers here (http://www.loony-archivist.com/torchwood/fanfic.htm) but if it had the bandwidth there'd be no reason for people not to upload.

*sigh* I went and counted fic and drabbles in the fandom. They number 30 or 37 if you factor in one of my multi-part fics. So... it really is all about the practicalities for me. That said, if Teaspoon is as easy as you say I could upload a fic a day or something.

[pontisbright.livejournal.com]

I think in general you have a very mellow reaction to fannish politics, though. You tend to think 'well, here's a thing I like' without getting too worked up about whether or not other people will like it. (Which is meant as a compliment, since I think that's a pretty admirable approach, but apologies if it isn't how you'd categorise it. You see how I get mired up in what other people might think? *headdesks*)

[vandonovan.livejournal.com]

Oh, it's very true. I am very much the "Here is my thing, don't read if it you don't like it, I'm posting it anyway." Because, um. Yes, it's the internets? I tend to post things, you know, where asked, too. You know. Slash fic to dw_slash and Two fic to two_love or what not. I'm not going to post an epic Ten/Rose with side-bits-of-Martha to a Martha comm. I get censoring for LJ. I don't post fic to my personal LJ anymore because too many people who read me aren't fannish/aren't into my fandoms. But it seems strange to me to NOT want to crosspost all over. Ahahaha.

[pontisbright.livejournal.com]

Yay for the Mickey love! And that's interesting, since my (out of date) data seemed to skew the other way: gentle Two/Jamie would get a handful of readers, but if you put Ten in some little scrap of toss, suddenly the world and his dog wanted to read it. I suppose that's just new v old, though.

Rec me some Evelyn? I've only heard one (and now I can't remember the name: evil toy Daleks?) but she seemed quite marvellous.

[pontisbright.livejournal.com]

Actually not very much random porn, in the end: there really isn't a whole lot of it on Teaspoon, truly. Not that I went looking purely for filth, since my slashy tendencies are more in the 'let's angst at one another prettily and possibly snog' direction, but still, it was odd to be trying to get a balance between the recs and finding that quite so difficult.

And yes, recs make at least a handful of people smile and that's more than you started with, so yay.

[pontisbright.livejournal.com]

Well, they now have a moderated system (to weed out the misspelled songfic bollocks that was dragging the site down), so there's a slight delay, but so far as I know that all happens after you've done the previewing etc yourself. And taking things off again is dead easy should you change your mind. *encourages*

[pontisbright.livejournal.com]

All most wise and perfectly logical.

I suppose it's an extension of your I don't post fic to my personal LJ anymore because too many people who read me aren't fannish/aren't into my fandoms self-censorship, though: the same principle, but applied to an archive which is presumed to be 'not into my fandoms' (or pairings, or whatever), even if only by weight of numbers rather than any intended bias. Which of course is why people like you going 'hi, actually here is some Four/Adric' is a good good thing.

[wishfulaces.livejournal.com]

Oh, gods. UNIT. Every time I still think, "but what would Three say?"

[vandonovan.livejournal.com]

but that's so strange to me. Teaspoon is organized by Doctors. So my Two/Jamie should never infringe on someone looking for Five/Turlough or Ten/Master or whatever. They would never come up in a search. I mean, I guess, MAYBE if you predominantely wrote Ten/Rose and got a crapload of people watching you for updates and suddenly posted a Two/Jamie it might throw your readers for a loop. I feel this way about my ART a little, on deviantArt. I have a lot of people who watch me for equine stuff, so when I throw out some random obscure 70s British slashy picture, I feel a bit guilty for making them suffer through that when they're here for the horses.

But, you know. To me there's a difference between wanting horses and getting Avon/Vila slash and wanting Doctor/Rose and getting Doctor/Jamie. (Also, it doesn't stop me from posting my slashy B7 fanart to my dA account; I just feel mildly guilty.)

[livii.livejournal.com]

let's angst at one another prettily and possibly snog'

Mmmmmmm. :D

I wouldn't say no to some porn, though. ;)

[livii.livejournal.com]

You know Three would join in; he's a big old perv at heart. ;)

[wishfulaces.livejournal.com]

I suppose it is an oddly positive aspect about the loads of Ten/Simm!Master coming out these days? Slash is becoming positively respectable! Or something.

comparatively it's a tiny little corner of the fandom and a relatively recent development.

How much het was around before the new series, the advent of LJ, and all the rest? DW's always been a bit different from other ancient (*cough*) fandoms, like Star Trek or MUNCLE, in that respect, hasn't it? Focusing more on the adventure plots and the character stuff but without all the fiddly sex bits? Or am I just imagining that? (Even the NAs never really sexed up the Doctor--there might have been hordes of gay men and a companion shagging in every other novel, but it wasn't really until Eight came along that the Doctor started getting in on the action, it seems to me. I could be wrong, though.)

[wishfulaces.livejournal.com]

But only after a raised eyebrow, some mild snarking, and buggering off for a moment to fetch a bottle of red.

[wishfulaces.livejournal.com]

Oh yes, Turlough's shorts and Peri's bikini would instantly catch everyone's attention. Not to mention Five in shirtsleeves, which is pretty much the equivalent to being utterly bollocking naked in his case.

[snowgrouse.livejournal.com]

Ooh. I dunno, maybe it's the different type of distribution. As in, on LJ you get clusters of people and comms around certain pairings, whereas with Teaspoon it's just this one big sea of... stuff. I don't discriminate that much, but I haven't bothered posting some drabbles or some of my ubercrap fics on Teaspoon, mostly because there isn't much point (either the drabbles are the sort of typical "pointing out the bleeding obvious" drabble, or the longer ones are just utterly rubbish). Personally, I tend to put my stuff into the archives almost as an afterthought, because you get so much more feedback on LJ. People actually talk to you! OTOH, I do like the read counter thingummy on Teaspoon, which I wish LJ had--I've really gone "WHAT THE FUCK?" at the amount of reads my fics have had. Which is, on one hand, really satisfying (yay readers!) and slightly depressing (oh, no comments, poo).

One thing I still need to figure out is why people love the fics I like the least, especially on Teaspoon and now Prydonian. The ones with the most cliches and the shakiest writing, with some really appalling confusing POV shifts and descriptions. And the fact that a crappy Ten/Master/Lucy threesome is getting fuckloads of reads, where I was under the impression that slashers run screaming from any mention of vag. I can maybe understand the popularity of Valeriana, as woefully old-fashioned as it is, because there isn't enough Five/Ainley out there (WHY, GODS, WHY? NEEDS MOAR). So, yeah. At least Teaspoon is making me go "WTF" at fandom, if nothing else...

[calapine.livejournal.com]

I stick everything up on the Teaspoon. Cause I like having a complete archive thingie. Unless it's something daft like comment!fic or a story in twenty words, that sort of thing. But it usually takes me a couple of weeks before I remember to upload there. And sometimes people will comment on the most random things or, in one mad and wonderful case, read about twenty of your fics and give you a nice bite of feedback on every one.

[pontisbright.livejournal.com]

If only I could be bothered to like Ten/Simm!Master. I dunno, it just doesn't ping for me in spite of the oodles of angst potential. But it is nice to see a socking great slash pairing in the new skool.

Yesyesyes to all the weirdness of Who as a fandom, though. Fic suddenly taking a sonic leap from being long droney plot (I like plot, I love plot, but sometimes it's not what makes for great fic) to being comfy with teh sex (as lizbee says, around the same time as LJ started to eat fandom and it became more of a female space: really, the new series couldn't have hit at a better time).

These are the things that make me explode with geekery, because fan history is one of those thrilling things that it's hard to keep track of but is just fascinating. I was not around for the radw days, but from what I gather pron (het or slash) was reserved for silly comments and fic was for being terribly serious and creating complex skientific societies in a hard sci-fi kind of way (rampant generalisation, obviously). Hence the 'oh noes he kissed Grace/half-human' debacle.

[calapine.livejournal.com]

There was the Warm Gallifreyan Nights fanzines what had teh sex, I recall.

[calapine.livejournal.com]

I have done slashy recruiting, cause the proportions are just silly at the mo, 6 slash to 30 het and over fifty gen, IIRC.

[calapine.livejournal.com]

We love slash! Bring us your slash!

[calapine.livejournal.com]

...but so far as I know that all happens after you've done the previewing etc yourself. And taking things off again is dead easy should you change your mind. *encourages*

Correct in both cases, yes.

[pontisbright.livejournal.com]

People actually talk to you! That's got to be the clincher, in the end. Pleasing as the stats are (even when they are really quite bizarre), that's the really joyous bit of fandom for me at least, and Teaspoon inevitably doesn't really facilitate that bit.

There really isn't enough Five/Ainley out there. You'd think Ten/Simm would prompt it, but I'm not sure that's going to happen. (Popularity of Valeriana = indication that people would read more hard slash of them if there only was more it, though?)

The 'people like this but I think it's a bit crap' thing is so confusing. It's like when people leave reviews which suggest they really didn't quite get what you were trying to do: it seems ungrateful to carp, but it's still this weird non-validation. Odd.

[pontisbright.livejournal.com]

Hurrah for the thorough and dedicated feedbacker! (And the thorough and dedicated writer too, natch: makes life easier for the rest of us, anyway.)