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pontisbright: (5turlough_pardon?)
UNEXPECTED JIM ROBINSON!

In other less pleasing news,
That was actually much, much worse than I had been led to believe.  I loved the first two to little shredded pieces when I was wee: Indy has Doctor-level fondness booked into my brain for all eternity.  And Harrison Ford is fine; the 'old man' thing isn't a problem. I still would.  Plus motorbikes in libraries, and really absurdly lengthy car chases, and aaaaaaaaaaaants eating people aliiiiiiiiiiiiiiive.  All these are good things.

But OH YE GODS the plot the plot.  WTF were they thinking?   It is an Indy film.  I do not wish to hear the phrase 'No, they're interdimensional beings!' 

And what was the point of the FBI people at the start, who then completely vanished?  Or the nuclear bomb testing (followed by casual reference to Oppenheimer), which I kept thinking would be a huge part of the Sinister Plot, or at least receive some kind of 'ooer, nuclear bombs are worrying, aren't they kids?' - but no.  They just felt like having Indy fly through the air in a fridge.  Although I have learned that communists are Bad.  It's not really clear whether they're more Bad than interdimensional beings (who might not be Bad, actually, because they like archaeology which is Good), but at least one of them was Bad because she had an evil haircut.  She also sought 'knowledge', took bonkers risks to do so, and was such a despicable heathen when it comes to valuable artefacts that she just cut one open with a knife, ruining it forever!  Indy would never do such a thing.  Oh, hang on...

Magnificent end scene.  Although I am disappointed that Chewbacca didn't get a medal too.

Also: if it could stop pissing it down at some point this week, that would probably really improve my mood. :(

Comments

[identity profile] lesbiassparrow.livejournal.com wrote:
May. 28th, 2008 07:26 pm (UTC)
I feel that Indiana films without Nazi villains are pointless. This one proved my case very nicely. Though I am always entertained by the devastation that Indiana Jones brings with him when he visits. I wonder that they let him into some countries.
[identity profile] bienegold.livejournal.com wrote:
May. 28th, 2008 07:46 pm (UTC)
I agree.

Also, this movie proves the rule that even-numbered sequels usually blow.
[identity profile] pontisbright.livejournal.com wrote:
May. 28th, 2008 08:22 pm (UTC)
I always get confused as to whether the good ones of Star Trek are odd or even.

Empire Strikes Back, Godfather II, blah blah statistics. :) (And I have an unholy fondness for Temple of Doom: my brain knows it's awful - and ten kinds of racist - but it makes me feel like a small child who might be invited along on a thrilling adventure. At least now there's definitely one crapper than that, phew.)
[identity profile] bienegold.livejournal.com wrote:
May. 28th, 2008 08:28 pm (UTC)
But ESB and Godfather II are the exceptions that prove the rule!

I quite like The Last Crusade, mostly because Sean Connery is fabulous in it.
[identity profile] pontisbright.livejournal.com wrote:
May. 28th, 2008 08:54 pm (UTC)
There aren't that many franchises I have that much time for, sadly. I'm told the second Fantastic Four movie was an improvement, for example, but I'd have to have wanted to see the first one to know. Spiderman 3 < Spiderman 2 < Spiderman (which I thought was pretty shoddy anyway).

I saw most of Last Crusade the other day, and was reminded what a lovely silly riot of fun it is. Unlike the new one. Jokes! I WANTED JOKES!
[identity profile] pontisbright.livejournal.com wrote:
May. 28th, 2008 08:15 pm (UTC)
Yeah, they were a bit screwed by the lack of Nazis. Cate Blanchett doing a comedy Russian accent doesn't quite have the same air about it.

Fortunately, Indiana Jones only goes to countries filled with Foreign Johnnies, whose savagery means they won't mind. Or something. Oh, Spielborg, you're not allowed to do that anymore...
[identity profile] taperoo2k.livejournal.com wrote:
May. 28th, 2008 08:10 pm (UTC)
The alien/interdimensional being stuff was another "WTF were you thinking Lucas?!?!" moment (the phantom meanace was full of those moments).
Though i guess it sort of stems from the UFO stuff that was happening around the time Indiana Jones is set in. Though that bit felt soo much like the bit in Raiders of the lost ark where the Nazi's open it and God burns them all to a crisp. Cept replace Nazi's with Soviets getting burned up/sucked away.

In regards to the rain, i think i timed my visit to WHSmiths to get DWM perfectly, it started raining just as i put my key in the front door.

[identity profile] pontisbright.livejournal.com wrote:
May. 28th, 2008 08:19 pm (UTC)
I get the UFO/Roswell thing they were trying for, but seriously, have they not seen X Files? You just know that when the plot becomes 'yes, they are aliens after all!' that everything goes downhill. And in defence of the bonkers supernatural stuff that happens in Raiders (and Last Crusade), as least that's drawing on some kind of actual mythology. I'm agnostic, but I still have a bit more time for smitey god getting crispy on Nazis than I do for 'Mayans/Incas/Aztecs were building spaceships, dude!' bollocks. That way lies becoming Tom Cruise.

I got bloody soaked, sat in the cinema feeling wet and cold, walked home getting more soaked...bugger.
[identity profile] bienegold.livejournal.com wrote:
May. 28th, 2008 08:30 pm (UTC)
Exactly! I was reluctant from the beginning and then...no Nazis? No biblical relics?! For shame!

Also, melty Nazis are awesome. It's one of my favorite movie moments.
[identity profile] pontisbright.livejournal.com wrote:
May. 28th, 2008 08:57 pm (UTC)
Plus Hitler actually was the kind of crazy to have genuinely sent people to dig up holy relics. Stalin's interest in 'psychic powers' and interdimensional Mayans? Less well-documented.

The carnivorous ants were a nice throwback to the melty Nazis. But it's a sad day when my favourite scene involves a nameless evil dude being consumed by ants. FAIL.
[identity profile] taperoo2k.livejournal.com wrote:
May. 29th, 2008 01:46 am (UTC)
Well the film followed the same basic formula and i guess they've used up all the mythical stuff now (hrm maybe if they do another one they can look for the Spear of Destiny or something).
As for Tom Cruise, i don't intend to see any more of his films if i can help it. I have great dislike for cults dressed up as bona fida religion. But that's a rant for another time.

As for the soaking, sounds like normal Oxford weather to me.
It looks nice out, you think "i don't need a coat, a jumper will do" and then 10-15 minutes later your soaked and miserable.
[identity profile] vandonovan.livejournal.com wrote:
May. 28th, 2008 09:27 pm (UTC)
I tried to justify it with "I belieed that the ark could melt nazis and the Grail kept that dude alive for 500 yers, so hail alien beings" but it did still feel a bit. Like. WTF. Also, the crystal skull looked ridiculous y/n?

Sigh. I did like some aspects of it. Honest, as silly as the aliens were, I found "Indy survives a nuclear bomb in a fridge" far harder to believe.
[identity profile] pontisbright.livejournal.com wrote:
May. 28th, 2008 09:45 pm (UTC)
The skull looked like some moulded plastic filled with bubble wrap. If Three had a story based around it, it would be famous as 'that one with the embarassingly cheapo plastic skull'. At no point did it appear to weigh more than an envelope. Oh dearie me.

For some reason the Grail keeping the dude alive for centuries seems quite plausible, and the aliens seem...not. Hmm. It's a bit like what David Renwick (writer of Jonathon Creek) says about the X-Files (bear with me): that if there's a story where EITHER some extraordinarily clever plot involving people being amazingly clever and foresighted and wow, OR aliens did it The End, then clearly the easy one to write is the aliens, and the interesting one is not. It's not an exact match, because obviously one has to allow a degree of the 'supernatural' or 'unreal' or 'spiritual' in to allow the Ark and the Grail to do what they do - but those have some grounding in something that wasn't made up by some people who got a bit pissed in the Nevada desert within the last 60 years. It just makes them look a bit thick, tbh.

Indy survives a nuclear bomb in a fridge FOR NO REASON WHATSOEVER. That's what bothers me. Fine, rewrite the script as you go along, but make sure it fits together again at the end?
[identity profile] vandonovan.livejournal.com wrote:
May. 28th, 2008 09:55 pm (UTC)
Yes. The sheer cheapo plasticness of the skull really bothered me. The one in Image of Fendahl looked better than it, by far. I love how it was all TOTALLY SHINY AND POLISHED after being dug out of the burial chamber thingie. And how all the other skeletons were just. Sitting there all intact, like they do. Sigh.

I really wanted to like it, and I was entertained, but. Man. It's hard to do it that lame. I'm not even opposed to the aliens, but the ending should've been "Was it or wasn't it?" not "Indy stands there and watches a flying saucer rise from the ocean" or whatever. I mean, I sort of like the fact that that leads to all the alien sightings of the 50s, but you still could have explained that without Indy silohetted against a rising saucer. (Or against a mushroom cloud, wtf.)

At first, I thought, Indy always has a little mini-adventure in the first half of the movie, that doesn't really connect to the rest of the film. (The famous golden monkey idol and rolling stone, for instance, don't really connect to the Ark, etc.), so I figured the nuclear bomb thing was part of that. But at least the golden idol thingie INDY DOING ARCHEOLOGY. Surviving a nuclear holocaust in a fridge. Just. Sigh. What? why? Wasn't it enough to have the whole shoot out in the warehouse?

Oh well. I loved the 50s sets and costumes and period pieces, and the scene of Mutt and Indy in the cafe near the beginning was hilarious. Yay.
[identity profile] pontisbright.livejournal.com wrote:
May. 28th, 2008 10:11 pm (UTC)
Some of the period stuff felt a little awkward, since they were tied to keeping Indy's look the same (and retained the Plane-Flies-Over-Map etc, so it felt a bit divided) - but yeah, the Greasers v Socs fight and Mutt's Brando routine with his fussy DA: that was all grand.

The mini-adventure at the start: I dunno. Nice to link up with the Ark warehouse, fine to try to establish some kind of relationship with Mac (though crap, both Winstone and John Hurt were so underwritten and I hope they got paid a lot), and yep, fine to start out that way. But it seemed like some of the script seemed to have been written with the idea that Indy had retired from adventuring (hence the FBI/being fired plotline which means he's got nothing better to do), whereas they seemed to not want to go with that after all. Messy. The mini-adventure is supposed to establish his mode of being and moral credentials, and instead we got some random shit about him being a decorated war hero. Mmmkay. And then it all tied in with later, except it didn't at all.

I did like some things. Indy's reaction to first seeing Marion was the goofy uncomfortable dork!Indy that I'd been waiting to see, and she was pretty awesome all round (though the jilted thing? eh). The quicksand explanation stuff was funny. It wasn't Phantom Menace-bad. But...oh, wasted opportunities, grrr.
[identity profile] vandonovan.livejournal.com wrote:
May. 28th, 2008 10:14 pm (UTC)
Yes. Yes. Yes.

The thing that baffles me the MOST is that. Like. We know Ford is on record being like, I WANTED IT TO BE THE PERFECT SCRIPT. Like. What? Did he think this was it? Or did it change that much in filming? Or were the rest really just THAT MUCH WORSE?
[identity profile] pontisbright.livejournal.com wrote:
May. 28th, 2008 10:23 pm (UTC)
Indeed. I think they said they rejected about 4 scripts before this. (Wasn't there a Lawrence Kasdan on the table at one point?) What, were they just stroking their beards and going 'hmm, I like it, but it needs more INTERDIMENSIONAL BEINGS'?

I can't believe they're shlepping round Cannes saying they might do another one.
[identity profile] vandonovan.livejournal.com wrote:
May. 28th, 2008 10:25 pm (UTC)
Ahaha, apparently it was always the plan in the 80s to make five of them. I bet they will, just to beef up Mutt's role so that he can have a spin off cash cow. Though MUTT JONES just doesn't have the same ring to it.

Honestly, I wish they'd just gone with ALIENS because the interdimensional beings thing really comes across as ITS NOT ALIENS EVEN THOUGH IT TOTALLY IS.
[identity profile] pontisbright.livejournal.com wrote:
May. 28th, 2008 10:32 pm (UTC)
Since when was it the plan to make 5 of them? I smell George Lucas and his insatiable bank account. (Counting the days before we get the announcement of Star Wars 7-9...)

It's aliens, except they aren't, because they were discovered by the Conquistadors, except there are these other ones that flew in around 1947 who were a different species and those ones were aliens, but these ones were gods, or archaeologists who collected stuff from every civilization ever, or created every civilization ever, or some kind of completely ill-defined South American guys made of crystal with a hive brain. THEY LOVED KNOWLEDGE. The end.

Who were the people in Peru in the graveyard who had masks on and tried to kill them with poison darts? Other than racial stereotypes, obviously?
[identity profile] vandonovan.livejournal.com wrote:
May. 28th, 2008 10:37 pm (UTC)
Who were the people in Peru in the graveyard

How about the ones that jumped out of the walls and ceiling of that waterfall? Did they just. Live in there for all eternity, waiting for the day that SOMEDAY, SOMEONE might wander by? And did they pop out the first time Oxley visited? and if so, how did they rebuild those walls? and. and. and. At least Temple of Doom has their horrible stereotypes have dialogue and like. A mind-altering drug that made them a bit insane. Sigh.

I love how Ford calls Blanchets's character "Mid-30s" somewhere in there too, ha. Poor girl, DYING FOR KNOWLEDGE. BECAUSE KNOWLEDGE IS BAD.
[identity profile] pontisbright.livejournal.com wrote:
May. 29th, 2008 07:04 pm (UTC)
Makes. No. Sense. Seriously. How come the city went from being this amazing underground world built with amazing technology beyond our own, to an ethnically vague temple full of the usual non-specific axe-wielding furriners, who were clearly too 'savage' to have built it themselves? Gah.

If knowledge = aliens!, then yes, knowledge is bad. REMEMBER THAT, KIDS!
[identity profile] vandonovan.livejournal.com wrote:
May. 29th, 2008 09:42 pm (UTC)
I also love the one scene in the graveyard on the hill, where you could see the lines drawn in the dirt all clearly. THe whole point of those things is there AREN'T any hills/mountains around, which is why no one discovered them until airplanes were invented, ahahhaha.

JUST A LITTLE RESEARCH, GUYS. I guess it all went into trying to replicate Brando's leather outfit for Mutt.
[identity profile] pontisbright.livejournal.com wrote:
May. 29th, 2008 10:02 pm (UTC)
The Brando moment is at least good. But not really an excuse for being phenomenally lazy. :(
[identity profile] bienegold.livejournal.com wrote:
May. 28th, 2008 09:59 pm (UTC)
Maybe it was a stowaway from Warriors on the Cheap?

See, the thing with the aliens. I think a person can be any religion but still thing, yes, this at least has a vague basis in biblical canon. And like [livejournal.com profile] pontisbright said above, Hitler did have a penchant for biblical paraphernalia.

Just...aliens?
[identity profile] pontisbright.livejournal.com wrote:
May. 28th, 2008 10:14 pm (UTC)
I still can't believe it was aliens. There was an entire cinema covering their eyes when that saucer went up. I'm a sci-fi fan and I thought it was crappy: who did they think was going to like it??

If they'd broken into the temple and found the Myrka, that would have been AWESOME. Visual Rickroll.
lithrael: (Default)
[personal profile] lithrael wrote:
May. 29th, 2008 12:22 am (UTC)
Agreed, pretty much. I enjoyed it, but wow I wish it had been less crap.

Ever since I'd heard of it I had assumed it was going to be about like, ex-Nazis hiding out in South America, racing Indy to a super powerful prize, a la Raiders. Hell, we could have had a fun 'OMG! Look, it's Refugee Hitler! Catch Hitler, Indy!' reveal at some point.

Instead we get Indy versus the Baroness's Mom. Sigh. And they didn't even try to tie it in with any of the cool real-life stuff like the Mayan thingy from Palenque that looks a bit like a guy in a rocket.
[identity profile] pontisbright.livejournal.com wrote:
May. 29th, 2008 07:06 pm (UTC)
I think George read the index of a Fortean Times back in about 92, and based the whole thing on that. Zzzzz.

It wasn't an entirely hideous viewing experience, but I might cry if someone makes me watch it again. Refugee Hitler would've been so much more fun!
[identity profile] taleya.livejournal.com wrote:
May. 29th, 2008 01:02 am (UTC)
I had the feeling that they stole a stargate plot from somewhere and desperately tried to retool it.

It didn't work.

Plus while the Indiana Jones movies have always had somewhat insane levels of action in them (Hell, they practically define the genre!) it went over the top into cartoonish.

I was holding off buying the trilogy boxed set until they did the quartet, but I might go the trilogy now and pretend the fourth one doesn't exist. Much like I did with Sliders (My collection goes up to Arturo's death and no further! THE POO SEASONS DO NOT EXIST)
[identity profile] pontisbright.livejournal.com wrote:
May. 29th, 2008 07:09 pm (UTC)
The 'oh look, my nads are being smacked by foliage during this uncannily-like-the-Return-of-the-Jedi-chase-even-down-to-having-fucking-ewoks-in-it' business was pretty laboured. Sure, Last Crusade skims close to the line with the semi-parody (the tank chase, rock in the gun barrel, etc) - but at least the jokes are actually funny.

I have a trilogy box set. And that is how it will stay. :)

(Never really got into Sliders: was always shown at random times here.)
[identity profile] taleya.livejournal.com wrote:
May. 29th, 2008 07:37 pm (UTC)
Actually, it might have been improved by the addition of Ewoks. If they did them along the same vein as the psychotic Pygmies from The Mummy Returns.

Last Crusade goes so close to over the top in so many scenes, but dammit, it's done in a good way. Like its predecessors, it made no bones whatsoever about what it was - a fantastical, over the top adventure story. Pure 1930's style, like Biggles on CRACK. I mean, shit. The plane in the tunnel during the car chase scene for example - completely over the top, but god DAMN it worked!

The latest one...it's lost that. It's less immersing you in the fantasy and more parading things about on the screen. You don't get any feel for the time period or the story at all. And the CGI was absolute dogshit - ILM have seriously gone down the crapper. Lucas has pretty much done to the indy trilogy what he did to the star wars trilogy. He seems to like crapping on his own successes of late..
[identity profile] pontisbright.livejournal.com wrote:
May. 29th, 2008 10:08 pm (UTC)
I think you've absolutely nailed it: the time period is the thing that really kills it dead. The 30s era isn't just 'oh look Nazis': it's the age of screwball comedy and daft adventure serials - which means our received sense of that age makes us more accepting of the wacky shit. The 50s? You've got the apple pie white picket fence, bobbysoxers and universal social paranoia (in the US, obviously: if it was in Britain it would be shot in sepia tones and all about who'd stolen this month's ration of powdered egg - which might have been more edifying). So they stick with the same 'zany' qualities while trying to plaster some consciousness of social and political unrest over the top, where it sits like off cream on a trifle, slowly going yellow and stinky and making the whole thing repulsive.

Someone needs to edit some Ewoks into that car chase. Don't fail me now, internets!
[identity profile] taleya.livejournal.com wrote:
May. 29th, 2008 10:35 pm (UTC)
So they stick with the same 'zany' qualities while trying to plaster some consciousness of social and political unrest over the top, where it sits like off cream on a trifle, slowly going yellow and stinky and making the whole thing repulsive.

Damn you, now I'm hungry!

But yes, the 50's are rather a dead period, perceptually at least. The world was recovering from the biggest damned conflict humans ever managed to inflict on each other, and the whole decade (apart from the rock and roll explosion) is rather reminiscent of a house the day after a huge party - everyone's being very conservative, very quiet, and hoping like hell no one remembers what it was they did with the lampshade and two balloons.
[identity profile] pontisbright.livejournal.com wrote:
May. 29th, 2008 10:46 pm (UTC)
Blargh. Rotting trifle does not make me feel hungry. (To be fair, non-rotting trifle also makes me want to vom.)

There's just not really any way to sex up the 50s. It's either Grease-style 'la la la everything is fine' or...actually, I think that's it. Or cultural misery like kitchen sink drama. Not where to put one's Indy, dammit.
[identity profile] taleya.livejournal.com wrote:
May. 29th, 2008 10:54 pm (UTC)
Or M*A*S*H. Although to be honest, the default mental image when thinking of the 50's tends to be Pleasantville...

Still reckon they shoulda called it Indiana Jones and the Ravages of Time
[identity profile] pontisbright.livejournal.com wrote:
May. 29th, 2008 11:10 pm (UTC)
But M*A*S*H is so obviously about the 70s it hardly counts as persuasive 50sness.

Indiana Jones and the Regrettable Waste of Talent?
[identity profile] taleya.livejournal.com wrote:
May. 29th, 2008 11:36 pm (UTC)
Indiana Jones and the Shithouse Plotline?
[identity profile] pontisbright.livejournal.com wrote:
May. 29th, 2008 11:37 pm (UTC)
Indiana Jones and the...Aliens? Srsly? Can I have my money back?